--The Selfishness of Mary and Bob Schindler, Terri Schiavo's Parents--

[Franklin Hummel]

I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.

Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.

Rather than be loving parents, rather letting go of the thing their daughter's body is
now, they continue to lie to themselves, to be stuck in an unreality that their daughter,
after 80% of her brain has dissolved and only the most primate parts that control only
the basic body factions like breathing, is still conscience, still within that living
corpse.

It is the same unreality the parents are in that their daughter, after 80% of her brain
has dissolved for over a decade now, can recover from being a zombie.

Terri has been kept alive not for her sake, but for the warped emotional needs of her
parents and her family.

This is a psychologically sick family, a self-centered and selfish family , who clings to
the past and unreality and who continues to lie to themselves and others, when what above
all else they need to do now and what they should have done years ago: Let go.

The daughter they love has been dead for 15 years. Let the body which held her mind,
herself, her soul, die. Let the thing they call Terri finally have peace.

Let go.

-- Franklin Hummel in Boston, Massachusetts

[n***@newsfeeds.com]

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"......What remains is only a living corpse......"



But there's life.

Those who put forward the pro-life argument, make a central issue of LIFE.

The life does not have to be intelligent or conscious.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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[Eyeball Kid]

Post by n***@newsfeeds.com

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"......What remains is only a living corpse......"
But there's life.
Those who put forward the pro-life argument, make a central issue of LIFE.
The life does not have to be intelligent or conscious.

Oh, what a bunch of crap. Is that "human life", or is that just "life"?
We really can't call T.S.'s life "human" can we? And if it's not a
human life, devoid of a human brain, then it's some other form of life.
Do the "pro-lifers" feel the same way about cows? sheep? Insects?
Please...

When is the nonsense going to end and the common sense begin?

E. K.

Post by n***@newsfeeds.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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[stoney]

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:21:05 -0800, Eyeball Kid

Post by Eyeball Kid

Post by n***@newsfeeds.com

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"......What remains is only a living corpse......"
But there's life.
Those who put forward the pro-life argument, make a central issue of LIFE.
The life does not have to be intelligent or conscious.

Oh, what a bunch of crap. Is that "human life", or is that just "life"?
We really can't call T.S.'s life "human" can we? And if it's not a
human life, devoid of a human brain, then it's some other form of life.
Do the "pro-lifers" feel the same way about cows? sheep? Insects?
Please...
When is the nonsense going to end and the common sense begin?

When the superstitious nutcases bathe the planet in nuclear radiation.

[Jeff Dee]

Post by n***@newsfeeds.com

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"......What remains is only a living corpse......"
But there's life.

The same could be said of the mold growing on that half-eaten carrot you
forgot about in the fridge.

Post by n***@newsfeeds.com
Those who put forward the pro-life argument, make a central issue of LIFE.
The life does not have to be intelligent or conscious.

Are you serious? Do you know how many microbic lives an average
anti-choicer kills every time they brush their teeth?

-Jeff Dee

[stoney]

Post by n***@newsfeeds.com

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"......What remains is only a living corpse......"
But there's life.
Those who put forward the pro-life argument, make a central issue of LIFE.
The life does not have to be intelligent or conscious.

As Christians continually demonstrate.

[Rightard Whitey]

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.
Rather than be loving parents, rather letting go of the thing their daughter's body is
now, they continue to lie to themselves, to be stuck in an unreality that their daughter,
after 80% of her brain has dissolved and only the most primate parts that control only
the basic body factions like breathing, is still conscience, still within that living
corpse.
It is the same unreality the parents are in that their daughter, after 80% of her brain
has dissolved for over a decade now, can recover from being a zombie.
Terri has been kept alive not for her sake, but for the warped emotional needs of her
parents and her family.
This is a psychologically sick family, a self-centered and selfish family , who clings to
the past and unreality and who continues to lie to themselves and others, when what above
all else they need to do now and what they should have done years ago: Let go.
The daughter they love has been dead for 15 years. Let the body which held her mind,
herself, her soul, die. Let the thing they call Terri finally have peace.
Let go.
-- Franklin Hummel in Boston, Massachusetts

You are correct. This became a blood feud when Michael Schiavo would not
share the $1 million dollars he got for Terri's brain damage.

The Schindlers wanted Michael to build a home for Terri so they could
take care of her. They also wanted to be reimbursed for the expenses of
caring for her.

Micheal was in the hospital after he received the million dollars. Mr.
Schindler approached him while Micheal was a Terri's side and started
arguing with about the money. Mrs. Schindler had to intervene to prevent
the two men from fighting.

If I had been Micheal Schiavo I probably would have worked out some sort
of a compromise with the Schinders. This didn't happen and the here we
are today with this story state of affairs.

[n***@newsfeeds.com]

Post by Rightard Whitey

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.

[snip]

Post by Rightard Whitey
You are correct. This became a blood feud when Michael Schiavo would not
share the $1 million dollars he got for Terri's brain damage.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now enters the Almighty Dollar.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post by Rightard Whitey
The Schindlers wanted Michael to build a home for Terri so they could
take care of her. They also wanted to be reimbursed for the expenses of
caring for her.
Micheal was in the hospital after he received the million dollars. Mr.
Schindler approached him while Micheal was a Terri's side and started
arguing with about the money. Mrs. Schindler had to intervene to prevent
the two men from fighting.
If I had been Micheal Schiavo I probably would have worked out some sort
of a compromise with the Schinders. This didn't happen and the here we
are today with this story state of affairs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is there a link between the Almighty Dollar and Michael not wanting a divorce ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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[Uncle Buck]

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:41:40 -0500, "Franklin Hummel"

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.

Honestly? I think to keep her alive in such a vegetative state _is_
unspeakably cruel. But deluded though they may be, that isn't what
the Schindlers honestly believe they are doing. I think their motives
originate from the basic parental drive to never give up hoping for
the best for your children. That hope isn't indestructible by any
means, but it's damn near impossible to kill.

Post by Franklin Hummel
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.

I wish they believed that, I really do. This whole mess would be over
with by now. It's a horrible thing they're going through, though I am
of the belief that it's a necessary thing.

Post by Franklin Hummel
Rather than be loving parents, rather letting go of the thing their daughter's body is
now, they continue to lie to themselves, to be stuck in an unreality that their daughter,
after 80% of her brain has dissolved and only the most primate parts that control only
the basic body factions like breathing, is still conscience, still within that living
corpse.
It is the same unreality the parents are in that their daughter, after 80% of her brain
has dissolved for over a decade now, can recover from being a zombie.
Terri has been kept alive not for her sake, but for the warped emotional needs of her
parents and her family.
This is a psychologically sick family, a self-centered and selfish family , who clings to
the past and unreality and who continues to lie to themselves and others, when what above
all else they need to do now and what they should have done years ago: Let go.

I can understand why you see it this way, but I must disagree. Their
needs seems natural enough to me. Granted, plenty of parents _have_
faced such a truth and left go, but parents aren't all cut from the
same mold. I think they love their daughter, don't want to give up
hope and have managed to keep believing in the face of all evidence to
the contrary that "Terry, the mind" still exists. Lying to yourself
in order to avoid facing traumatic truths isn't sick. It's not the
healthiest thing in the world, but it's one of many perfectly natural
human coping mechanisms. It takes a strong individual to overcome
such a thing, and I have trouble faulting the Schindlers for being
weak. I'm even inclined to overlook what I believe to be their more
recent lies regarding how interactive Terry is with people. Were it
my daughter and I truly and honestly believed she were still alive and
consciously aware, I'd fight with everything I had to keep her alive,
even if it meant lying. I'd probably even consider violence.

Post by Franklin Hummel
The daughter they love has been dead for 15 years. Let the body which held her mind,
herself, her soul, die. Let the thing they call Terri finally have peace.
Let go.

I hear ya'. I get angry at them too, sometimes. especially more
recently. But I believe it's worth remembering that for one thing,
Terry no longer exists in any meaningful sense of the word and
therefore their actions aren't harming her, and for another that this
whole situation has _got_ to be pure hell for them. They believe that
they are watching the courts and Terry's husband kill their child,
their baby, the one who still "talks" to them and "laughs" with them -
it doesn't matter that it's only delusion, it's the same hell they'd
be going through if they were 100% right. I don't think they should
have their way in this case, but I do think they should have our
sympathy.
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck

[ElvisRocks]

So that means we should go into every hospice, hospital, private home,
nursing home in the good old USA and
kill everyone who isn't up to our standards?
I am pro choice BIG TIME - a Liberal Democrat but there is no WRITTEN living
will...just the words of
a "husband" who has nothing but his own best interests at heart. It's
disgusting, all right!!!!!
Someone should starve that MF to death.

Post by Uncle Buck
On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:41:40 -0500, "Franklin Hummel"

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.

Honestly? I think to keep her alive in such a vegetative state _is_
unspeakably cruel. But deluded though they may be, that isn't what
the Schindlers honestly believe they are doing. I think their motives
originate from the basic parental drive to never give up hoping for
the best for your children. That hope isn't indestructible by any
means, but it's damn near impossible to kill.

Post by Franklin Hummel
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.

I wish they believed that, I really do. This whole mess would be over
with by now. It's a horrible thing they're going through, though I am
of the belief that it's a necessary thing.

Post by Franklin Hummel
Rather than be loving parents, rather letting go of the thing their daughter's body is
now, they continue to lie to themselves, to be stuck in an unreality that their daughter,
after 80% of her brain has dissolved and only the most primate parts that control only
the basic body factions like breathing, is still conscience, still within that living
corpse.
It is the same unreality the parents are in that their daughter, after 80% of her brain
has dissolved for over a decade now, can recover from being a zombie.
Terri has been kept alive not for her sake, but for the warped emotional needs of her
parents and her family.
This is a psychologically sick family, a self-centered and selfish family , who clings to
the past and unreality and who continues to lie to themselves and others, when what above
Let go.

I can understand why you see it this way, but I must disagree. Their
needs seems natural enough to me. Granted, plenty of parents _have_
faced such a truth and left go, but parents aren't all cut from the
same mold. I think they love their daughter, don't want to give up
hope and have managed to keep believing in the face of all evidence to
the contrary that "Terry, the mind" still exists. Lying to yourself
in order to avoid facing traumatic truths isn't sick. It's not the
healthiest thing in the world, but it's one of many perfectly natural
human coping mechanisms. It takes a strong individual to overcome
such a thing, and I have trouble faulting the Schindlers for being
weak. I'm even inclined to overlook what I believe to be their more
recent lies regarding how interactive Terry is with people. Were it
my daughter and I truly and honestly believed she were still alive and
consciously aware, I'd fight with everything I had to keep her alive,
even if it meant lying. I'd probably even consider violence.

Post by Franklin Hummel
The daughter they love has been dead for 15 years. Let the body which held her mind,
herself, her soul, die. Let the thing they call Terri finally have peace.
Let go.

I hear ya'. I get angry at them too, sometimes. especially more
recently. But I believe it's worth remembering that for one thing,
Terry no longer exists in any meaningful sense of the word and
therefore their actions aren't harming her, and for another that this
whole situation has _got_ to be pure hell for them. They believe that
they are watching the courts and Terry's husband kill their child,
their baby, the one who still "talks" to them and "laughs" with them -
it doesn't matter that it's only delusion, it's the same hell they'd
be going through if they were 100% right. I don't think they should
have their way in this case, but I do think they should have our
sympathy.
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck

[Cheryl]

I totally agree with you!!!
I am a bleeding-heart liberal democrat. I am pro-choice, anti-death penalty
and an atheist. This is NOT a religious issue to me. Michael Schiavo needed
to but the hell out of Terri's life years ago via divorce. Why doesn't
someone just hit her over the head with a skillet?... it would be far more
humane. For all intents and purposes, Michael is an ex-husband! ... and in
no position to be overriding her parents in determining the value of Terri's
life or how and when it will end.
Cheryl

Post by ElvisRocks
So that means we should go into every hospice, hospital, private home,
nursing home in the good old USA and
kill everyone who isn't up to our standards?
I am pro choice BIG TIME - a Liberal Democrat but there is no WRITTEN
living will...just the words of a "husband" who has nothing but his own

best >interests at heart. It's disgusting, all right!!!!!

Post by ElvisRocks
Someone should starve that MF to death.

[Barney Lyon]

Post by ElvisRocks
So that means we should go into every hospice, hospital, private home,
nursing home in the good old USA and
kill everyone who isn't up to our standards?
I am pro choice BIG TIME - a Liberal Democrat but there is no WRITTEN living
will...just the words of
a "husband" who has nothing but his own best interests at heart.

It's

Post by ElvisRocks
disgusting, all right!!!!!
Someone should starve that MF to death.

ElvisRocks, you haven't followed the case.

Judges (not one, but several) determined that it was Terri Schiavo's
wishes NOT based on what her husband said, or what her parents said
(Mary Schindler did admit during one proceeding that it was what her
daughter wanted, and backed away from that later) - but on what friends
and other relatives testifed to.

Do you want Texas' advanced directives act that Bush signed into law
when he was Governor of Texas in 1999 repealed? Do you want the
advanced directives acts in other states repealed?

To use the word "starve" means that you don't know enough about the
case or medicine to be making up your mind. I bet that you think that
Terri Schiavo was not in a PVS. I bet that you think that Terri
Schiavo would be ok if only she had had rehabilitation. She had
rehabilitation. She had therapy. She had thalamic implants. She had
all of this for YEARS after the $million settlement. Terri Schiavo had
no cerebral cortex. You can't grow new brain cells. There was no
Terri Schiavo inside the shell of Terri Schiavo's body.

What you saw was what PVS looks like. To the untrained and
inexperienced eye, a carefully edited videotape that only shows you a
script where her mother times her questions to Terri Schiavo's grunts
seems like she's got a conscious mind. Terri Schiavo moved and grunted
to NOTHING. Terri Schiavo moved and grunted to silence, to noise, to
light, to dark, to friends, to strangers, to ghosts.

The human brain stem can do all that, but there is no mind. No
thought, rational or other. PVS is like the energizer bunny - only a
very young child would think that it was real.

[Barney Lyon]

Post by Uncle Buck
On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:41:40 -0500, "Franklin Hummel"

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.

Honestly? I think to keep her alive in such a vegetative state _is_
unspeakably cruel. But deluded though they may be, that isn't what
the Schindlers honestly believe they are doing. I think their

motives

Post by Uncle Buck
originate from the basic parental drive to never give up hoping for
the best for your children. That hope isn't indestructible by any
means, but it's damn near impossible to kill.

Post by Franklin Hummel
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.

I wish they believed that, I really do. This whole mess would be over
with by now. It's a horrible thing they're going through, though I am
of the belief that it's a necessary thing.

Post by Franklin Hummel
Rather than be loving parents, rather letting go of the thing their daughter's body is
now, they continue to lie to themselves, to be stuck in an unreality that their daughter,
after 80% of her brain has dissolved and only the most primate parts that control only
the basic body factions like breathing, is still conscience, still within that living
corpse.
It is the same unreality the parents are in that their daughter, after 80% of her brain
has dissolved for over a decade now, can recover from being a

zombie.

Post by Uncle Buck

Post by Franklin Hummel
Terri has been kept alive not for her sake, but for the warped emotional needs of her
parents and her family.
This is a psychologically sick family, a self-centered and selfish family , who clings to
the past and unreality and who continues to lie to themselves and others, when what above
all else they need to do now and what they should have done years ago: Let go.

I can understand why you see it this way, but I must disagree. Their
needs seems natural enough to me. Granted, plenty of parents _have_
faced such a truth and left go, but parents aren't all cut from the
same mold. I think they love their daughter, don't want to give up
hope and have managed to keep believing in the face of all evidence to
the contrary that "Terry, the mind" still exists. Lying to yourself
in order to avoid facing traumatic truths isn't sick. It's not the
healthiest thing in the world, but it's one of many perfectly natural
human coping mechanisms. It takes a strong individual to overcome
such a thing, and I have trouble faulting the Schindlers for being
weak. I'm even inclined to overlook what I believe to be their more
recent lies regarding how interactive Terry is with people. Were it
my daughter and I truly and honestly believed she were still alive and
consciously aware, I'd fight with everything I had to keep her alive,
even if it meant lying. I'd probably even consider violence.

Buck, Bob Schindler pulled the plug on his own mother. She'd had
pneumonia for a week and her kidneys shut down. Dialysis could have
kept her going. Her mind wasn't liquefied, as Terri Schiavo's was.

Stop the bullshit - the Schindlers have been supported by conservative
foundations (such as Richard Mellon Scaife's), sold the list of those
who have contributed to them (well-meaning ordinary people) for their
own personal enrichment. The people who donated didn't give the
Schindlers permission to be bombarded with junk mail, appeals for more
donations, and snowed under with sales' pitches.

Yesterday, one of their lawyers was asked on one of the cable news
programs if the Schindlers were going to start a charitable
organization in their daughter's name. The lawyer said, "They have the
.saveterry.com organization..after they pay their bills (what bills???
They didn't pay for their daughter's care; Terri Schiavo's care was
being paid by the American taxpayer, after the settlement was used up),
they want (not "will," not "have," they "want") to start an
organization with what's leftover that would go to keep others like
Terri alive."

The Schindler family is steeped in rationalization, denial, avarice,
and heaps of false piety.

[ElvisRocks]

Well, now Michael Schiavo is doing the happy dance!!! He's finally free.
Oh that's right, he lives with another
woman and has two kids by her.

Post by Franklin Hummel
I think what Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and their other children
have done and are doing is unspeakably cruel to their daughter.
Their daughter is dead. What remains is only a living corpse. That want to keep that
corpse living so they can avoid dealing with the fact their daughter died 15 years ago,
when her brain died.
Rather than be loving parents, rather letting go of the thing their daughter's body is
now, they continue to lie to themselves, to be stuck in an unreality that their daughter,
after 80% of her brain has dissolved and only the most primate parts that control only
the basic body factions like breathing, is still conscience, still within that living
corpse.
It is the same unreality the parents are in that their daughter, after 80% of her brain
has dissolved for over a decade now, can recover from being a zombie.
Terri has been kept alive not for her sake, but for the warped emotional needs of her
parents and her family.
This is a psychologically sick family, a self-centered and selfish family , who clings to
the past and unreality and who continues to lie to themselves and others, when what above
Let go.
The daughter they love has been dead for 15 years. Let the body which held her mind,
herself, her soul, die. Let the thing they call Terri finally have peace.
Let go.
-- Franklin Hummel in Boston, Massachusetts

[s***@ucdavis.edu]

now, they continue to lie to >themselves, to be stuck in an >unreality

that their daughter,

after 80% of her brain has dissolved >and only the most primate parts
that control only
the basic body factions like >breathing, is still conscience, still
within that living
corpse.
It is the same unreality the parents >are in that their daughter,

after 80% >of her brain

has dissolved for over a decade >now, can recover from being a
zombie.

No more unrealistic than believing in a sky god that loves them and
they will live forever after they die. That is the direct consequence
of a faith based way of life.

Mike Syvanen

[Chana]

My take on this is that unless you are in a "vegative state" yourself
how the hell do you know wether or not he person can think and feel.
Doctors themselves will admit they know less about the brain than any
other part of the body.

my own feelings on this matter is that the husband and family are being
just as selfish as one another.

personally my family know that if i was in that state pull the plug.

but if She is as much of a roman catholic as she seems to be portrayed
to be i cannot belive she would tell her husband to do the same thing.

sorry but that is my view

And as for who shoudl choose what happens to her it hink that as her
perants the people who have loved her all her life they should be able
to have a say in what happens wether she is married or not.

Chana