OT - Terri Schiazvo DEAD

[Franklin Hummel]

Apologize for what?

For accusing me of something which wasn’t true. For accusing Michael Schiavo of
something which he didn't do.

You have the chance now to show maturity by admitting what these claims were not the
truth, that you were wrong. Show the other posters and lurkers, right now, that you
accept your responsibility for your actions when you make mistakes by admitting to them.

Valuing life no matter what?

There was no Terri Schiavo in that body, that thing; there was no woman there; there was
no person there. She died 15 years before her body died.

Have you eaten beef? Have you eaten chicken? There was more consciousness in the cow or
that chicken your meals came from than there was in the body of Terri Schiavo that died a
day ago.

Have you every killed a mouse? There was more consciousness in that mouse than was in
Mrs. Schiavo’s body that died on Thursday.

Have you ever pulled an apple off a tree? Have you every broke a flower from a stem? If
you did, you did the same thing that happened to a body with a vegetable brain on March
31, 2005 in a Florida hospice.

Refusing to put my own conditions on it's value?

(“Its” not “it’s”.)

When your conditions are irrational and contrary to reality, yes.

Refusing to give in when it's uncomfortable for ME?

For refusing to accept adult responsibility to admit in public, here on Usenet, you were
wrong, when you made these claims in public which were proven not to be true, no manner
*how* uncomfortable they are for *you*.

Michael's father says "she has put up a tremendous battle to live.
She's not throwing in the towel."

That's not Michael's father saying that! That's Terri's father!
Michael's father is dead.
I just love trolls.

I'm not a troll. Just an alarmed and concerned citizen.
That being said, I got that quote out of my local paper. Upon
re-reading it, it says, "She's doing remarkably well under the
circumstances," said Schiavo's father, Bob Schindler."
So it is an editorial mistake from a smalltown newspaper, my friend,
nothing else. Shoot me for it. Starve me.
If I'm a troll, then you are too. Calm down.

OK, I deserved that.
Kris

Kris Baker did. Can you, will you, Huronia, now?

Show everyone here you accept your moral and ethical responsibilities by apologizing for
your errors. Prove to us you hold to and live by the standards you constantly claim in
your posts that other do not.

Show us *who* you are, Huronia

Or don’t, and show us *what* you are.

-- Franklin Hummel in Boston, Massachusetts

[GypsyL]

Post by Franklin Hummel
There was no Terri Schiavo in that body, that thing; there was no woman there; there was
no person there. She died 15 years before her body died.
Have you eaten beef? Have you eaten chicken? There was more consciousness in the cow or
that chicken your meals came from than there was in the body of Terri Schiavo that died a
day ago.
Have you every killed a mouse? There was more consciousness in that mouse than was in
Mrs. Schiavo’s body that died on Thursday.
Have you ever pulled an apple off a tree? Have you every broke a flower from a stem? If
you did, you did the same thing that happened to a body with a vegetable brain on March
31, 2005 in a Florida hospice.

Is there any other way to go about standing up for what Terri wanted
WITHOUT de-humanizing and devaluing her life?

A while back, I worked in a state institute for mentally challenged
and brain damaged people. Some of the residents were in the same
relative condition Terri Schiavo was in, or worse. There were some
highly nightmaric conditions of human beings in there - you'd be
horrified at some of them - the 3 who had been born with their brains
outside their heads; the boy who's body never grew after birth, whose
intelligence was so low he never learned how to suck; the retarded
woman whose bones hadn't ever fully hardened and to whom some of the
crueler residents referred to as "The Pancake Lady"; people born with
just parts of brains, or too much brain, etc., etc.

The point is, something you learn when working in a place like that:
every single life had some value. Whether we thought there was
"someone in there" or not - where a human heart was beating, there
was life. And who are we to say which life is valuable? Simply
because they couldn't eat, or talk, or think like us, didn't mean
there wasn't something of value in them. You wouldn't believe how
some of the worst cases in that place had what seemed to be definite
personalities.

To say that there was no Terri Schiavo in that body, or that she was
no more than a piece of meat, is to not only de-humanize her, but
every other person born or ending up in that kind of condition. It
insults and demeans their lives, and I'm sorry you and some of the
others feel that way. She was most emphatically NOT "a thing" of
no value, nor is anyone else in similar conditions.

Can we not just say that Terri *was* a valid, valuable, human being,
even at the end, and therefore deserved the end she had desired 15
years before?

Um...please don't ever work around mentally challenged and/or brain
damaged people, mmkay?

GypsyL

[nimue]

Post by GypsyL

Post by Franklin Hummel
There was no Terri Schiavo in that body, that thing; there was no
woman there; there was no person there. She died 15 years before
her body died.
Have you eaten beef? Have you eaten chicken? There was more
consciousness in the cow or that chicken your meals came from than
there was in the body of Terri Schiavo that died a day ago.
Have you every killed a mouse? There was more consciousness in that
mouse than was in Mrs. Schiavo's body that died on Thursday.
Have you ever pulled an apple off a tree? Have you every broke a
flower from a stem? If you did, you did the same thing that
happened to a body with a vegetable brain on March 31, 2005 in a
Florida hospice.

Is there any other way to go about standing up for what Terri wanted
WITHOUT de-humanizing and devaluing her life?
A while back, I worked in a state institute for mentally challenged
and brain damaged people. Some of the residents were in the same
relative condition Terri Schiavo was in, or worse. There were some
highly nightmaric conditions of human beings in there - you'd be
horrified at some of them - the 3 who had been born with their brains
outside their heads; the boy who's body never grew after birth, whose
intelligence was so low he never learned how to suck; the retarded
woman whose bones hadn't ever fully hardened and to whom some of the
crueler residents referred to as "The Pancake Lady"; people born with
just parts of brains, or too much brain, etc., etc.
every single life had some value. Whether we thought there was
"someone in there" or not - where a human heart was beating, there
was life. And who are we to say which life is valuable? Simply
because they couldn't eat, or talk, or think like us, didn't mean
there wasn't something of value in them. You wouldn't believe how
some of the worst cases in that place had what seemed to be definite
personalities.
To say that there was no Terri Schiavo in that body, or that she was
no more than a piece of meat, is to not only de-humanize her, but
every other person born or ending up in that kind of condition. It
insults and demeans their lives, and I'm sorry you and some of the
others feel that way. She was most emphatically NOT "a thing" of
no value, nor is anyone else in similar conditions.
Can we not just say that Terri *was* a valid, valuable, human being,
even at the end, and therefore deserved the end she had desired 15
years before?
Um...please don't ever work around mentally challenged and/or brain
damaged people, mmkay?
GypsyL

Brilliantly and feelingly put. Thank you.

[Linda]

Post by nimue

Post by GypsyL

Post by Franklin Hummel
There was no Terri Schiavo in that body, that thing; there was no
woman there; there was no person there. She died 15 years before
her body died.
Have you eaten beef? Have you eaten chicken? There was more
consciousness in the cow or that chicken your meals came from than
there was in the body of Terri Schiavo that died a day ago.
Have you every killed a mouse? There was more consciousness in that
mouse than was in Mrs. Schiavo's body that died on Thursday.
Have you ever pulled an apple off a tree? Have you every broke a
flower from a stem? If you did, you did the same thing that
happened to a body with a vegetable brain on March 31, 2005 in a
Florida hospice.

Is there any other way to go about standing up for what Terri wanted
WITHOUT de-humanizing and devaluing her life?
A while back, I worked in a state institute for mentally challenged
and brain damaged people. Some of the residents were in the same
relative condition Terri Schiavo was in, or worse. There were some
highly nightmaric conditions of human beings in there - you'd be
horrified at some of them - the 3 who had been born with their brains
outside their heads; the boy who's body never grew after birth, whose
intelligence was so low he never learned how to suck; the retarded
woman whose bones hadn't ever fully hardened and to whom some of the
crueler residents referred to as "The Pancake Lady"; people born with
just parts of brains, or too much brain, etc., etc.
every single life had some value. Whether we thought there was
"someone in there" or not - where a human heart was beating, there
was life. And who are we to say which life is valuable? Simply
because they couldn't eat, or talk, or think like us, didn't mean
there wasn't something of value in them. You wouldn't believe how
some of the worst cases in that place had what seemed to be definite
personalities.
To say that there was no Terri Schiavo in that body, or that she was
no more than a piece of meat, is to not only de-humanize her, but
every other person born or ending up in that kind of condition. It
insults and demeans their lives, and I'm sorry you and some of the
others feel that way. She was most emphatically NOT "a thing" of
no value, nor is anyone else in similar conditions.
Can we not just say that Terri *was* a valid, valuable, human being,
even at the end, and therefore deserved the end she had desired 15
years before?
Um...please don't ever work around mentally challenged and/or brain
damaged people, mmkay?
GypsyL

Brilliantly and feelingly put. Thank you.

I second that

[Huronia]

Post by Linda

Post by nimue

Post by GypsyL

Post by Franklin Hummel
There was no Terri Schiavo in that body, that thing; there was no
woman there; there was no person there. She died 15 years before
her body died.
Have you eaten beef? Have you eaten chicken? There was more
consciousness in the cow or that chicken your meals came from than
there was in the body of Terri Schiavo that died a day ago.
Have you every killed a mouse? There was more consciousness in that
mouse than was in Mrs. Schiavo's body that died on Thursday.
Have you ever pulled an apple off a tree? Have you every broke a
flower from a stem? If you did, you did the same thing that
happened to a body with a vegetable brain on March 31, 2005 in a
Florida hospice.

Is there any other way to go about standing up for what Terri wanted
WITHOUT de-humanizing and devaluing her life?
A while back, I worked in a state institute for mentally challenged
and brain damaged people. Some of the residents were in the same
relative condition Terri Schiavo was in, or worse. There were some
highly nightmaric conditions of human beings in there - you'd be
horrified at some of them - the 3 who had been born with their brains
outside their heads; the boy who's body never grew after birth, whose
intelligence was so low he never learned how to suck; the retarded
woman whose bones hadn't ever fully hardened and to whom some of the
crueler residents referred to as "The Pancake Lady"; people born with
just parts of brains, or too much brain, etc., etc.
every single life had some value. Whether we thought there was
"someone in there" or not - where a human heart was beating, there
was life. And who are we to say which life is valuable? Simply
because they couldn't eat, or talk, or think like us, didn't mean
there wasn't something of value in them. You wouldn't believe how
some of the worst cases in that place had what seemed to be definite
personalities.
To say that there was no Terri Schiavo in that body, or that she was
no more than a piece of meat, is to not only de-humanize her, but
every other person born or ending up in that kind of condition. It
insults and demeans their lives, and I'm sorry you and some of the
others feel that way. She was most emphatically NOT "a thing" of
no value, nor is anyone else in similar conditions.
Can we not just say that Terri *was* a valid, valuable, human being,
even at the end, and therefore deserved the end she had desired 15
years before?
Um...please don't ever work around mentally challenged and/or brain
damaged people, mmkay?
GypsyL

Brilliantly and feelingly put. Thank you.

I second that

I'll more than gladly third it.

Huronia

[Franklin Hummel]

Post by Franklin Hummel

Apologize for what?

For accusing me of something which wasn’t true. For accusing Michael Schiavo of
something which he didn't do.
You have the chance now to show maturity by admitting what these claims were not the
truth, that you were wrong. Show the other posters and lurkers, right now, that you
accept your responsibility for your actions when you make mistakes by admitting to them.

Valuing life no matter what?

There was no Terri Schiavo in that body, that thing; there was no woman there; there was
no person there. She died 15 years before her body died.
Have you eaten beef? Have you eaten chicken? There was more consciousness in the cow or
that chicken your meals came from than there was in the body of Terri Schiavo that died a
day ago.
Have you every killed a mouse? There was more consciousness in that mouse than was in
Mrs. Schiavo’s body that died on Thursday.
Have you ever pulled an apple off a tree? Have you every broke a flower from a stem?
If
you did, you did the same thing that happened to a body with a vegetable brain on March
31, 2005 in a Florida hospice.

Refusing to put my own conditions on it's value?

(“Its” not “it’s”.)
When your conditions are irrational and contrary to reality, yes.

Refusing to give in when it's uncomfortable for ME?

For refusing to accept adult responsibility to admit in public, here on Usenet, you were
wrong, when you made these claims in public which were proven not to be true, no manner
*how* uncomfortable they are for *you*.

Michael's father says "she has put up a tremendous battle to live.
She's not throwing in the towel."

That's not Michael's father saying that! That's Terri's father!
Michael's father is dead.
I just love trolls.

I'm not a troll. Just an alarmed and concerned citizen.
That being said, I got that quote out of my local paper. Upon
re-reading it, it says, "She's doing remarkably well under the
circumstances," said Schiavo's father, Bob Schindler."
So it is an editorial mistake from a smalltown newspaper, my friend,
nothing else. Shoot me for it. Starve me.
If I'm a troll, then you are too. Calm down.

OK, I deserved that.
Kris

Kris Baker did. Can you, will you, Huronia, now?
Show everyone here you accept your moral and ethical responsibilities by apologizing for
your errors. Prove to us you hold to and live by the standards you constantly claim in
your posts that other do not.
Show us *who* you are, Huronia
Or don’t, and show us *what* you are.
-- Franklin Hummel in Boston, Massachusetts

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Let's see, Google Groups lists you with just nearing 1,000. I'm pushing
6,000. Of course, I've been on the net since the late 1980s and had
a different email address at the start which I changed about 5 years
later, so it's likely my posts' total is higher than that.
So why don't you fuck off until you know what you're taking about to
someone who does? Hmm?
-- Franklin Hummel in Boston, Massachusetts

Now, see... that's the way messages should be posted. I was able to follow the
flow of the conversation since you bottom posted, and I wasn't buried in quoted
bullshit since you trimmed it down. The entire message was viewable within one
window; I didn't have to scroll down at all. So what's the problem?

[eggs]

Post by GypsyL

Post by Franklin Hummel
There was no Terri Schiavo in that body, that thing; there was no woman there; there was
no person there. She died 15 years before her body died.
Have you eaten beef? Have you eaten chicken? There was more consciousness in the cow or
that chicken your meals came from than there was in the body of Terri Schiavo that died a
day ago.
Have you every killed a mouse? There was more consciousness in that mouse than was in
Mrs. Schiavo’s body that died on Thursday.
Have you ever pulled an apple off a tree? Have you every broke a flower from a stem? If
you did, you did the same thing that happened to a body with a vegetable brain on March
31, 2005 in a Florida hospice.

Is there any other way to go about standing up for what Terri wanted
WITHOUT de-humanizing and devaluing her life?
A while back, I worked in a state institute for mentally challenged
and brain damaged people. Some of the residents were in the same
relative condition Terri Schiavo was in, or worse. There were some
highly nightmaric conditions of human beings in there - you'd be
horrified at some of them - the 3 who had been born with their brains
outside their heads; the boy who's body never grew after birth, whose
intelligence was so low he never learned how to suck; the retarded
woman whose bones hadn't ever fully hardened and to whom some of the
crueler residents referred to as "The Pancake Lady"; people born with
just parts of brains, or too much brain, etc., etc.
every single life had some value. Whether we thought there was
"someone in there" or not - where a human heart was beating, there
was life. And who are we to say which life is valuable? Simply
because they couldn't eat, or talk, or think like us, didn't mean
there wasn't something of value in them. You wouldn't believe how
some of the worst cases in that place had what seemed to be definite
personalities.
To say that there was no Terri Schiavo in that body, or that she was
no more than a piece of meat, is to not only de-humanize her, but
every other person born or ending up in that kind of condition. It
insults and demeans their lives, and I'm sorry you and some of the
others feel that way. She was most emphatically NOT "a thing" of
no value, nor is anyone else in similar conditions.
Can we not just say that Terri *was* a valid, valuable, human being,
even at the end, and therefore deserved the end she had desired 15
years before?
Um...please don't ever work around mentally challenged and/or brain
damaged people, mmkay?
GypsyL

Excellent post. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

eggs.

[!krp??]

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